Marty Burners - Revision history

Dnevil at 15:09, 8 September 2021

2021-09-08T15:09:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:09, 8 September 2021
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	[[Category:Construction]]		[[Category:Construction]]

	"Marty Burners" refers to a propane-fired burner for live steam locomotives. They are named after the developer, [[Marty Siegel]].		[[Marty Burners]] refers to a propane-fired burner for live steam locomotives. They are named after the developer, [[Marty Siegel]].

	<gallery widths="300px" heights="300px">		<gallery widths="300px" heights="300px">

Dnevil: /* Construction */

2021-09-08T15:04:24Z

Construction

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:04, 8 September 2021
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	Marty suggested putting the burners on 2 inch centers and 1 inch from the fire box wall. I've found that you can tighten up the centers to 1.5 if you 'interlock' the flames.		Marty suggested putting the burners on 2 inch centers and 1 inch from the fire box wall. I've found that you can tighten up the centers to 1.5 if you 'interlock' the flames.

			== Suppliers ==

			Ready-made [[Marty Burners]] are available from the following vendors:

			* [[Bengie Burners]]

	== References ==		== References ==

Dnevil: /* References */

2018-05-22T22:44:27Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:44, 22 May 2018
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	* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93168 "Propane baffle plate", <i>Chaski.org</i>]		* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93168 "Propane baffle plate", <i>Chaski.org</i>]
	* [http://www.goldengatels.org/library/Tom%20Artzberger/Propane%20Burners.pdf "Propane burners" (PDF), Tom Artzberger, <i>GGLS</i>]		* [http://www.goldengatels.org/library/Tom%20Artzberger/Propane%20Burners.pdf "Propane burners" (PDF), Tom Artzberger, <i>GGLS</i>]
			* [https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106801 "MEG Wendy on Coal", has photos of Marty Burner for MEG Wendy, <i>Chaski.org</i>]

Dnevil: /* References */

2014-12-03T19:07:41Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:07, 3 December 2014
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	* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=77693 "Marty burners", <i>Chaski.org</i>]		* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=77693 "Marty burners", <i>Chaski.org</i>]
	* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93168 "Propane baffle plate", <i>Chaski.org</i>]		* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=93168 "Propane baffle plate", <i>Chaski.org</i>]
			* [http://www.goldengatels.org/library/Tom%20Artzberger/Propane%20Burners.pdf "Propane burners" (PDF), Tom Artzberger, <i>GGLS</i>]

Dnevil at 22:24, 22 May 2013

2013-05-22T22:24:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:24, 22 May 2013
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	"Marty Burners" refers to a propane-fired burner for live steam locomotives. They are named after the developer, [[Marty Siegel]].		"Marty Burners" refers to a propane-fired burner for live steam locomotives. They are named after the developer, [[Marty Siegel]].

	[[File:BillShields MartyBurners 5.jpg~~\|thumb\|center\|300px~~\|Bill Shield's version of the Marty Burner.]]		<gallery widths="300px" heights="300px">
			File:BillShields MartyBurners 5.jpg\|Bill Shield's version of the Marty Burner.
			File:Marty Siegel Sacramento.jpg\|Marty Siegel giving Dave August's locomotive a try at the Sacramento track. From DiscoverLiveSteam.com.
			</gallery>

	== Construction ==		== Construction ==

Dnevil: /* Construction */

2013-05-22T22:12:39Z

Construction

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:12, 22 May 2013
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	This is a scan of Marty's original drawing and should print out at 8.5 x 11.		This is a scan of Marty's original drawing and should print out at 8.5 x 11.

	[[File:Marty Burners original drawing.~~png~~\|thumb\|center\|300px\|Marty Siegel's original drawing of "Marty Burners".]]		[[File:Marty Burners original drawing.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px\|Marty Siegel's original drawing of "Marty Burners".]]

	When I decided to build a set of these burners I didn't have the hex brass. Besides that, I couldn't bring myself to throw that much brass in the trash. I looked at the design and figured it was just a piece of brass pipe with a plug in it, so that's how I built mine. When I first looked at Marty's drawing the only thing that bothered me was the slot saw for the burner head. [http://www.dremel.com Dremel] makes one that is 0.050, and it seems to work just fine. These slots are a bit shorter so being wider helps keep the area about the same. If they are properly built they will run at well over 15 PSI before the flame jumps from the head. That's quite a lot more than 6000 [[BTU]].		When I decided to build a set of these burners I didn't have the hex brass. Besides that, I couldn't bring myself to throw that much brass in the trash. I looked at the design and figured it was just a piece of brass pipe with a plug in it, so that's how I built mine. When I first looked at Marty's drawing the only thing that bothered me was the slot saw for the burner head. [http://www.dremel.com Dremel] makes one that is 0.050, and it seems to work just fine. These slots are a bit shorter so being wider helps keep the area about the same. If they are properly built they will run at well over 15 PSI before the flame jumps from the head. That's quite a lot more than 6000 [[BTU]].

Dnevil: /* Construction */

2013-05-22T22:08:43Z

Construction

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:08, 22 May 2013
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	This is a drawing for my version of the burners.		This is a drawing for my version of the burners.

	[[File:Dave Augusts version of Marty burners.~~png~~\|thumb\|center\|300px]]		[[File:Dave Augusts version of Marty burners.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]

	=== Parts for Two Marty Burners ===		=== Parts for Two Marty Burners ===

Dnevil: /* References */

2013-05-22T20:25:59Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:25, 22 May 2013
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	* [http://web.archive.org/web/20070209153853/http://www.ggls.org/ "Marty Burners" by Dave August, <i>Archive.org</i>]		* [http://web.archive.org/web/20070209153853/http://www.ggls.org/ "Marty Burners" by Dave August, <i>Archive.org</i>]
			* [http://web.archive.org/web/20101210053004/http://www.livesteam.org/MartyBurners/index.html "Marty Burners" by Dave August (duplicated), <i>Archive.org</i>]
	* [http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/magazine/186/index.htm "Building Marty Burners" by Dave August, <i>DiscoverLiveSteam.com</i>]		* [http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/magazine/186/index.htm "Building Marty Burners" by Dave August, <i>DiscoverLiveSteam.com</i>]
	* [http://bbs.livesteam.net/showthread.php?t=3109 "Propane Burners", <i>Live Steam & Outdoor Railroading</i>]		* [http://bbs.livesteam.net/showthread.php?t=3109 "Propane Burners", <i>Live Steam & Outdoor Railroading</i>]

Dnevil: /* Construction */

2013-05-22T14:33:13Z

Construction

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:33, 22 May 2013
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	Many people have ask me how come my locomotive steams so well. My answer is that it has 'Marty Burners' in it.		Many people have ask me how come my locomotive steams so well. My answer is that it has 'Marty Burners' in it.

	[[Marty Siegel]] was a very knowledgeable and friendly club member who was always ready to offer his advice on a good problem. Back in 1998 I was complaining to Marty that my 'Tube and Slot' propane burner just wasn't giving me enough BTUs. He suggested that I try a set of these burners.		[[Marty Siegel]] was a very knowledgeable and friendly club member who was always ready to offer his advice on a good problem. Back in 1998 I was complaining to Marty that my 'Tube and Slot' propane burner just wasn't giving me enough [[BTU\|BTUs]]. He suggested that I try a set of these burners.

	As Marty told me, he was helping another club member, Jim Dameron, get the firing right on Jim's Pacific. Marty was so impressed with the simplicity and efficiency of the commercial burners in Jims engine that he took the time to make a set of drawings for them.		As Marty told me, he was helping another club member, Jim Dameron, get the firing right on Jim's Pacific. Marty was so impressed with the simplicity and efficiency of the commercial burners in Jims engine that he took the time to make a set of drawings for them.
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	[[File:Marty Burners original drawing.png\|thumb\|center\|300px\|Marty Siegel's original drawing of "Marty Burners".]]		[[File:Marty Burners original drawing.png\|thumb\|center\|300px\|Marty Siegel's original drawing of "Marty Burners".]]

	When I decided to build a set of these burners I didn't have the hex brass. Besides that, I couldn't bring myself to throw that much brass in the trash. I looked at the design and figured it was just a piece of brass pipe with a plug in it, so that's how I built mine. When I first looked at Marty's drawing the only thing that bothered me was the slot saw for the burner head. Dremel makes one that is 0.050, and it seems to work just fine. These slots are a bit shorter so being wider helps keep the area about the same. If they are properly built they will run at well over 15 PSI before the flame jumps from the head. That's quite a lot more than 6000 BTU.		When I decided to build a set of these burners I didn't have the hex brass. Besides that, I couldn't bring myself to throw that much brass in the trash. I looked at the design and figured it was just a piece of brass pipe with a plug in it, so that's how I built mine. When I first looked at Marty's drawing the only thing that bothered me was the slot saw for the burner head. [http://www.dremel.com Dremel] makes one that is 0.050, and it seems to work just fine. These slots are a bit shorter so being wider helps keep the area about the same. If they are properly built they will run at well over 15 PSI before the flame jumps from the head. That's quite a lot more than 6000 [[BTU]].

	This is a drawing for my version of the burners.		This is a drawing for my version of the burners.
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	=== Slot the Top ===		=== Slot the Top ===

	I use my milling ~~maching~~ to slot the top. If you don't have a mill, I'm sure you could build a simple fixture that would allow you to use the cross slide on your lathe to do this. Notice that I have a vice stop clamped in place. It both "backs up" the piece and makes it a simple matter to index the piece from the sides. Also notice how close the slot saw shaft is to the cap. The only critical thing here is to keep the distance between the tops of the slots bigger than 0.250. This is just under the 0.281 ID of the tube. DO NOT slice the top all the way through the center. The top of the cap deflects the gas mixture down and around the tube top.		I use my milling machine to slot the top. If you don't have a mill, I'm sure you could build a simple fixture that would allow you to use the cross slide on your lathe to do this. Notice that I have a vice stop clamped in place. It both "backs up" the piece and makes it a simple matter to index the piece from the sides. Also notice how close the slot saw shaft is to the cap. The only critical thing here is to keep the distance between the tops of the slots bigger than 0.250. This is just under the 0.281 ID of the tube. DO NOT slice the top all the way through the center. The top of the cap deflects the gas mixture down and around the tube top.

	[[File:MartyBurnerSlotTheTop.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]		[[File:MartyBurnerSlotTheTop.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]
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	=== Press the Plug ===		=== Press the Plug ===

	Insert a 0.250 piece of CRS through the air mixture holes and press the plug up to that. I try not to press the plug too tightly against the rod, just to make it easy to remove. It's OK if the plug is a bit from the bottom of the of the mixtures hole.		Insert a 0.250 piece of [[CRS]] through the air mixture holes and press the plug up to that. I try not to press the plug too tightly against the rod, just to make it easy to remove. It's OK if the plug is a bit from the bottom of the of the mixtures hole.

	[[File:MartyBurnerPressThePlug.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]		[[File:MartyBurnerPressThePlug.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]
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	=== Rich Idle ===		=== Rich Idle ===

	This is a Burner running at low pressure and burning a bit yellow. It seems that in every batch a few run a bit rich at idle. I've never had one that didn't burn totally blue at above 5 PSI though. If you do you can always press out the plug and replace it. I suspicion that the orifice drill cuts a bit wide now and then. This is a square law world and the change in area from 0.026 to 0.028 is quite a lot. If you consistently get rich ones you could use a #70 drill. Also make sure that the air mixture holes are completely de-burred.		This is a Burner running at low pressure and burning a bit yellow. It seems that in every batch a few run a bit rich at idle. I've never had one that didn't burn totally blue at above 5 PSI though. If you do you can always press out the plug and replace it. I suspicion that the orifice drill cuts a bit wide now and then. This is a square law world and the change in area from 0.026 to 0.028 is quite a lot. If you consistently get rich ones you could use a #70 drill. Also make sure that the air mixture holes are completely [[deburr\|de-burred]].

	[[File:MartyBurnerRichIdle.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]		[[File:MartyBurnerRichIdle.jpg\|thumb\|center\|300px]]

Dnevil: /* Thread the Tube */

2013-05-22T14:29:33Z

Thread the Tube

@@ Line 85: / Line 85: @@
 === Thread the Tube ===
-This is probably the hardest thing to do. Notice that I slip the same piece of CRS in one air mixture hole to act as a "dog" and keep the pipe from slipping in the chuck. I hand thread the end for about 4 turns, that's usually more than enough.
+This is probably the hardest thing to do. Notice that I slip the same piece of [[CRS]] in one air mixture hole to act as a [[dog]] and keep the pipe from slipping in the chuck. I hand thread the end for about 4 turns, that's usually more than enough.
 [[File:MartyBurnerThreadTheTube.jpg|thumb|center|300px]]
 == References ==