Boiler Material - Revision history

Dnevil: /* Nickel Steel */

2023-04-17T16:21:40Z

Nickel Steel

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	: There are all kinds of references to nickel steel boiler being used in real locomotives, then all of a sudden these boilers all had to be replaced at the same time. No reason is ever stated, does anyone know what went wrong with them?		: There are all kinds of references to nickel steel boiler being used in real locomotives, then all of a sudden these boilers all had to be replaced at the same time. No reason is ever stated, does anyone know what went wrong with them?

	Bruce Mowbray answers:		[[Bruce Mowbray]] answers:

	: Nickel steel boilers were used on real locomotives thinking that the higher (70,000 psi) tensile strength would be an improvement over the standard 50,000 psi carbon steel. It worked for a while but due to the high amount of flexing from both firing and bouncing down a railroad track, these high strength, somewhat rigid steels began to crack more than carbon steel boilers. It turns out that the old soft steels were a better choice for a boiler with such a high rate of demand change and rough service. Nickel steels were also used in frame castings and rod manufacture.		: Nickel steel boilers were used on real locomotives thinking that the higher (70,000 psi) tensile strength would be an improvement over the standard 50,000 psi carbon steel. It worked for a while but due to the high amount of flexing from both firing and bouncing down a railroad track, these high strength, somewhat rigid steels began to crack more than carbon steel boilers. It turns out that the old soft steels were a better choice for a boiler with such a high rate of demand change and rough service. Nickel steels were also used in frame castings and rod manufacture.

Dnevil: /* References */

2020-07-19T19:22:02Z

References

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	* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95968 "Boiler Material", <i>Chaski.org</i>]		* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95968 "Boiler Material", <i>Chaski.org</i>]
	* [https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=102971 "Boiler steel source", <i>Chaski.org</i>]		* [https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=102971 "Boiler steel source", <i>Chaski.org</i>]
			* [https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=109642 "Duplex steel", <i>Chaski.org</i>]

Dnevil: /* Picking Marty's Brain */

2018-07-20T19:50:27Z

Picking Marty's Brain

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:50, 20 July 2018
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	: When talking about stainless steel, it's important to remember that stainless has a ''much lower'' heat transfer capacity than mild steel, and only about 15% of the conductance or transfer capacity of copper. While some of that might be mitigated by a thinner skin, at least than mild steel, and bring the system closer to an equivalence with mild steel, I don't see you gaining much, in either the short or the long run, by making that compromise.		: When talking about stainless steel, it's important to remember that stainless has a ''much lower'' heat transfer capacity than mild steel, and only about 15% of the conductance or transfer capacity of copper. While some of that might be mitigated by a thinner skin, at least than mild steel, and bring the system closer to an equivalence with mild steel, I don't see you gaining much, in either the short or the long run, by making that compromise.

	== ~~Picking~~ Marty~~'s Brain~~ ==		== Advice from Marty ==

	[http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82955&hilit=Marty+Knox Marty Knox shares some views on boiler material and construction]:		[http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82955&hilit=Marty+Knox Marty Knox shares some views on boiler material and construction]:

Dnevil: /* Steel */

2018-07-20T19:49:07Z

Steel

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:49, 20 July 2018
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	[http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=96936&hilit=boiler Bill Shields writes]:		[http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=96936&hilit=boiler Bill Shields writes]:

	: Pipe and [[HRS]] plate are NOT the material to build a boiler, unless the pipe is something like oil well casing which has the same specification / inspection requirements as boiler tubing (I worked for an oil company for 10 years and know this from experience). You need to get certified material that is OK for Pressure Vessel application~~. A36 is a grade that comes to mind -> here are others, but my head is in European / DIN grades and for the life of me cannot remember the ANSI equivalents at this time~~.		: Pipe and [[HRS]] plate are NOT the material to build a boiler, unless the pipe is something like oil well casing which has the same specification / inspection requirements as boiler tubing (I worked for an oil company for 10 years and know this from experience). You need to get certified material that is OK for Pressure Vessel application.

	[http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=96936&hilit=boiler Marty Knox writes]:		[http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=96936&hilit=boiler Marty Knox writes]:

Dnevil: /* References */

2018-07-20T19:45:27Z

References

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	* [http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/susan-boiler.htm Monoflue Radiant Burner Boiler (Copper)]		* [http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/susan-boiler.htm Monoflue Radiant Burner Boiler (Copper)]
	* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95968 "Boiler Material", <i>Chaski.org</i>]		* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95968 "Boiler Material", <i>Chaski.org</i>]
			* [https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=102971 "Boiler steel source", <i>Chaski.org</i>]

Dnevil: /* Copper */

2017-09-04T02:59:18Z

Copper

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	[[Category:Steam Locomotive Parts]]		[[Category:Steam Locomotive Parts]]

			== ASME Code Boilers ==

			[https://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82955&start=36 Marty Know wrote]:
			: Materials accepted for construction of an ASME code vessel.
			:*Shell - SA106 B
			:*Plate - SA285 grade C/SA515 grade 70/SA516 grade 70
			:*Steel Tubes - SA178 grade A (welded) SA192 (seamless)
			:*Copper Tubes - no Code specification
			:*Staybolts - SA36/SA675
			:*Threaded couplings - SA105 3M (3000#)

	== Copper ==		== Copper ==

Dnevil: /* Picking Marty's Brain */

2016-06-10T16:41:13Z

Picking Marty's Brain

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:41, 10 June 2016
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	* Staybolts - SA36/SA675		* Staybolts - SA36/SA675
	* Threaded couplings - SA105 3M (3000#)		* Threaded couplings - SA105 3M (3000#)

			See also:
			: [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=82955 "Boiler Design and Material Selection", <i>Chaski.org</i>]

	== What not to use ==		== What not to use ==

Dnevil: /* References */

2014-12-15T18:53:14Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:53, 15 December 2014
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	* [http://www.armstronginternational.com/files/products/traps/pdf/N1_2~7.pdf Steam Tables]		* [http://www.armstronginternational.com/files/products/traps/pdf/N1_2~7.pdf Steam Tables]
	* [http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/susan-boiler.htm Monoflue Radiant Burner Boiler (Copper)]		* [http://www.susan-parker.co.uk/susan-boiler.htm Monoflue Radiant Burner Boiler (Copper)]
			* [http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95968 "Boiler Material", <i>Chaski.org</i>]

Dnevil: /* What not to use */

2014-12-03T03:58:15Z

What not to use

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	: It's not a good idea to use brass in a boiler, as it can suffer de-zincification (and failure). I expect the pieces you have are made of bronze, not brass. Bronze does not suffer the same fate.		: It's not a good idea to use brass in a boiler, as it can suffer de-zincification (and failure). I expect the pieces you have are made of bronze, not brass. Bronze does not suffer the same fate.

			== Safe Operating Pressure ==

			<i>[[The North American Live Steamer]]</i>, January 1956

			Determining Safe Working Pressure for Seamless Tubing

			The safe limit of pressure may be established by use of the following formula:

			<pre>
			Tensile Strength Thickness
			of Metal in * of wall in
			pounds per sq.in. inches
			--------------------------------- = Bursting Pressure
			Radius of Tube
			(1/2 O.D.) in inches

			Bursting Pressure
			------------------------ = Safe Limit of Pressure
			Factor of Safety (ex: 6)
			</pre>

			For instance, copper tube for boiler:
			* Diameter of Tube: 6 inches
			* Radius of Tube: 6 inches / 2 = 3 inches
			* Thickness of wall = 1/8-inch
			* Tensile Strength of copper = 30,000 pounds per square inch (psi)

			<pre>
			30,000 * 0.125
			Bursting Pressure = --------------- = 1,250 psi
			3

			1,250 psi
			Safe Limit of Pressure = ----------- = 208 psi
			6
			</pre>

			Said copper tube will provide a safe operating limit of 208 psi for boiler,
			providing you have good joints.

	== Stays ==		== Stays ==

Dnevil: /* Stays */

2014-06-30T02:50:27Z

Stays

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:50, 29 June 2014
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	: The first boilers I built with this technique are now 30 years old. The three that I know of that are no longer in service were all victims of scale buildup between the sheets, due to poor water, lack of water treatment, and few or no washouts. Even the one that had a 'mudbag'(burned sheet) bulged between the stays but the stays held.		: The first boilers I built with this technique are now 30 years old. The three that I know of that are no longer in service were all victims of scale buildup between the sheets, due to poor water, lack of water treatment, and few or no washouts. Even the one that had a 'mudbag'(burned sheet) bulged between the stays but the stays held.

			From <i>[[The Live Steamer]]</i>, March-April 1950:

			: What materials are best to use for boiler stays, and why?

			: A. R. Allen wrote:

			:: This depends on the material used in the boiler shell & firebox. Most small loco boilers are made of copper and for these boilers the best stay material is also copper. This is to avoid wasting away in the water space due to electrolysis. This action takes place when dissimilar metals are in contact and submerged in the boiler water.

			:: For a steel boiler with a steel firebox the stay-bolts should also be of steel for the same reason given above.

			: [[Brenton Barnfather\|B. W. Barnfather]] wrote:

			:: Ever-Dur (silicon bronze) screws (or bolts) are favored a lot by steam builders for stays as having non-rusting and high tensil strength qualities and are easy to drill to make hollow stays if desired.

			: Note: Mixed metals in boiler work are to be avoided as much as possible, and <u>brass</u> should never be used for stays.

	== Books ==		== Books ==